Engadget Podcast: Apple’s M4 chip heads to the iMac, Mac mini and MacBook Pro

Devindra: What's up internet? Welcome back to the Engadget Podcast I'm senior editor Devindra Hardawar. This week, I'm joined by our podcast producer, Ben Ellman. Hey, Ben.

Ben: Hello. How's it going?

Devindra: Hello. It's going good. Kind of a light ship this week because a lot of people are out. Everyone's on taking some break and a lot of people are just busy at Engadget.

So it's just going to be us. But we've got a lot of news to dive into all of Apple's new Macs with M4 chips, the M4 Pro and M4 Max as well, that they all just announced this week. There's a lot of new stuff and I'm excited to talk about it as always, folks. So if you're enjoying the show, please be sure to subscribe to us on iTunes or your podcatcher of choice.

Leave us a review on iTunes. Drop us an email at podcast@engadget.com. And also, yeah, you can join us Thursday mornings, typically around 1045 AM Eastern on our YouTube channel for our live stream so we can do some Q& A. In fact, we'll be including some of those questions and our answers later in this episode as well.

So, yeah, tune in for that. Ben, you are somebody who I know is fully in the Mac ecosystem, and I also know you're very conscientious. Well, unfortunately, or for what you do, you're kind of there, but you're also very conscientious about how you upgrade, right? Because we're dragging you into a modern iPhone and things like that.

How did you feel about all these new Macs? Because we have the M4 iMac, we have an adorable new Mac mini, which is tiny, absolutely tiny, and M4 chips on the MacBook Pros. Is anything particularly compelling to you?

Ben: So as I was reading up on the Mac, All of the stuff they released this week. I saw the line that said something like the M four, I think it was Pro Chip is now like three times faster than the now ancient M1,

Devindra: it is four.

That chip is four years old now. So that

Ben: cut me like a knife. But that is M1 Classic, not M1 Pro.

Devindra: Yes, I

Ben: do believe that. My research says that the M1 Pro is only two times slower than this new M4 Pro. Please fact check me on this. Send us an email at podcast adding gadget. If I didn't get that right.

Devindra: I mean, you, you bring up a good point though, Ben, be sure to be very clear about what Apple is comparing its devices to, right?

Because they often go back to base M1, which. Was released at the end of 2020 2020. It took a full year before we got the M4 Pro and M4 Max chips, right. Before they really expanded the line. No,

Ben: you mean M1 Pro and M1 Max. M1 Pro and M1 Max.

Devindra: Yeah. So remember that there was that time difference when they, they just dropped the M1 on us and that was on the MacBook Air, MacBook Pro 13 inch, which was a fricking waste of time and the Mac mini, I believe back then, right.

So.

Ben: But then this calls back to a bigger contextual question that I have. Why is Apple doing this? They are just releasing a bunch of stuff kind of quietly. They're putting it on the website. They're sending out like press releases and stuff. Usually they love to bring everyone onto the campus like they did just a couple of months ago and show you nonsensical stuff.

graphs with absolutely no measurements on them, saying how much faster this chip is than a chip that they released a few years ago. Is there any like chatter on why

Devindra: they're doing it kind of quietly like this? Yeah. So, I mean, let's talk about what happened this week, right? So they announced last week, or they confirmed that there will be.

a series of Mac news announcements, but we didn't, we didn't know if it would just be a live stream. We didn't know if it would just be video recordings and news drops. And that's what it ended up being. They love

Ben: a song and dance and there has been no song and

Devindra: dance. I mean, I feel it, you know, I'm sure even Apple is tired of hosting these song and dances or media events.

And yeah. Especially for machines that aren't like too different than before. The Mac mini is like a new one. The Mac mini like looks interesting. And I feel like Apple of yore would have done at least a small press event in New York or something to show off that particular piece of Hardaware. But also, I don't know, man, everyone's tired.

I feel like that's what we're feeling right now. You know, everyone's tired. We are. In this election cycle, which is just about to end, and I feel like they kind of got the news out there, right? They produced a couple of videos. They said, Hey, I mean, we just announced the M4 chip. Here's the M4 Pro and M4 Max.

Here are new systems. You kind of know what the deal is. And I feel like that's pretty much it.

Ben: Are you saying that they might be playing some kind of meta game where they're like, you know what, we're not going to ask all these tech journalists to fly out again and eat half to three quarters of their week going to hang out with us.

Because their grumpiness about having to do that, when it's getting toward the end of the year and they've got so much else on their plate, might bleed into man, why did they fly us out for this? Yes, there are improvements, but I think it's even unbearable. I think

Devindra: They are tired too, like to produce an event, to coordinate everything for a launch.

It's a lot of work. And I feel like even the people at Apple are like, you know, we don't need to go this hard. Like they produced a couple of videos. They got the press releases out there. They pre briefed some press. So I got a bit of early info on this. I didn't get early info on the iMac.

There are reports that they held some sort of hand hands on event. In L. A. At least that's what Mark Gurman said in his newsletter, and I have not seen any of those things out yet. So maybe those hands on will drop later today or tomorrow or something. And to be fair, the

Ben: iPhone 16 launch event was on Monday, September 9th, which means that it was just a month and a half ago.

Devindra: Yeah, it's, I feel like they're done. Like the major things for Apple are the iPhone events, maybe, maybe like a product event early in the year and then WWDC, you know, so, and the other thing is maybe we are amidst the like delayed launch of Apple intelligence. Right. Which also launched this week across devices with iOS 18.

1 and the MacOS stuff. And I also wonder if Apple's just like tired of answering questions about that. Like even that was like a muted, Hey here are a few Apple intelligence features that new Siri, not here yet. That'll be here soon. And also all this stuff is being slow rolled out. So strategy wise, what we saw Apple do, I think last year, Ben, I think they just did one day where they.

Posted a video and was just like, Hey, here's all the news. I wonder if this is a new strategy for Apple where they did it throughout the week, little tidbits of news, and we're talking about it throughout the entire week and they own that week, you know? So I think there's a lot of value to that.

Ben: Yeah.

Same thing is not dropping a entire. series of a show all at once, because if you do it weekly, like you used to, then people are talking about it week to week. The whole like entertainment news industrial complex can do their recaps and everything.

Devindra: Exactly, exactly. So let's take a look at what Apple is has launched this week.

On Monday, we got the new iMac M4 With brighter colors, I guess you could say we're talking brighter

Ben: colors on the front or the back

Devindra: on the back, right? There's no real colors on the real. No, you get the front colors to you have the like little chin on the iMac, but is the design that thinner design they launched with the M one chips now in slightly brighter colors?

M four chip also has, let me just see here. It also has a trend that we started seeing this week, 16 gigabytes of RAM. As the base amount without changing the base price. So who can we

Ben: thank for that?

Devindra: I would, I would say AI, I would say Apple intelligence. And that's also something we've seen throughout this entire year, but I'll get to that.

So 1299 for the new M4 iMac has 16GB of RAM, has much Faster Hardaware, at least with this M four chip. There are four USBC ports on the pricier one with a 10 core CPU and GPU for the M four, I assume you'll get less on the cheaper one. You can upgrade up to 32 gigabytes of ram. This is a nice system. I like the new imax.

Have you seen these things, Ben? In action?

Ben: I'm gonna be straight up with you. I have not seen a iMac inaction really since maybe before college or something. You've been in a Mac store, Ben. Come on. Okay. Yes. I've been in a Mac store, but like I haven't seen them in the wild outside of their enclosure for a very long time for a while.

That was like the way that you signaled to people, especially in education settings that your educational institution had money. Sure. And that actually gets to another question of okay, you have these Pretty colored anodized aluminum backs for the IMAX. And what do they do in most like non open plan office settings?

They're going to be pointed for the wall. Probably you're not even going to be

Devindra: able to enjoy them. You get, you get some color on the front. You get color on the base. The bases all have color too. And honestly, a lot of open offices have they're not pointing at the wall, right? They're, they're cubicles or like mini desks, in the middle of the room and maybe sometimes facing each other. I love this machine. Like I, Apple just did a great job of making the sink super slim. It is very light. It's easy to move around. You certainly couldn't, you know, mistake it for a laptop or something. But when I reviewed the M1 iMac, was it the M2?

Like whatever the last one I reviewed, like I was just so impressed at being able to to move that thing around to just And I remember portability

Ben: was part of the original like pitch for this, like years and years ago.

Devindra: Yeah, like you could bring it from your den to your, you know, dining room or something and do something with your kids and then bring it back.

It's just one cable. You plug it in. You haul over the accessories. It's not that tough. So I've actually for a while been contemplating just getting an iMac, like one of these new iMacs and having it be like the family computer, especially for my daughter, who's getting more into computing stuff right now, like she is.

Big on iPad. She's big on touchscreens. Minecraft is like the thing she does and she has some like iPad reading games and language games and stuff. So this would

Ben: be like the living room computer or something could

Devindra: be, and we have a space for it, or we move it up to an upstairs office or something.

But I just see the value here. So I think this is a great machine. It's great to have new Hardaware in here. Even better that it has 16 gigabytes of RAM. And yeah, as you were saying, Ben, I think we really can thank Apple intelligence for that. Mark Gurman in his last newsletter reported that you know, we've seen Apple intelligence basically eat up eight gigabytes of RAM on its own.

So because it's running large models, large language models and different things, and it's no wonder that. Microsoft's Copilot Plus PCs, those AI PCs also require at least 16 gigabytes of RAM. I think what we're seeing is like that is the cost of running these AI models because what they're doing is basically chewing up large amounts of data or processing it against your current data and that takes memory.

And I think for the longest time PC makers were like, hey, eight gigabytes, that's fine, right? They kind of drag their heels even moving beyond four gigabytes. When we review systems, we always recommend go for at least 16 gigabytes. You don't really want to be opening up your computer and adding in more RAM.

And even for newer computers you can't really do that. You can't do that with Apple's Hardaware because the RAM is built onto the processor. So, this is good. It's a good thing. Even if you don't care about Apple intelligence, you can thank AI for this, at least. So, that's the iMac. Any, any thoughts? Are you compelled by

Ben: this?

And you've been talking about, like, why do they even sell an 8 gig RAM version for a few years now? Because as the IT person, both formerly professionally and IT person of your family, For life, basically, yeah. Yeah. Always on call to be like, okay, well, you know what, I, I think I just want a laptop that like can do word processing and then all of a sudden somebody is like, Oh, well, my kid wants to edit a video on it.

And that's all it takes to justify a upgrade to 16 gigs.

Devindra: Exactly. And I mean, the cost in the past also wasn't that much, but it was still something. And a lot of Mainstream buyers just didn't go for it. I think this is a good thing. This is a good thing for everybody. Certainly like for the people who never made that bump before, when I talked to Apple before, why eight gigabytes was still the thing they were doing, they kept telling me like the M series chips are more memory efficient.

Which is kind of technically true. So they could maybe stretch eight gigabytes of Ram more than before. They're also the memory bandwidth was faster than before because the memory chips are right there next to the CPU. And it can all be processed much more quickly. But yeah, 16, 16 gigabytes is the standard.

And now I'm introducing a new standard folks. If you're listening to this show, if you like to play games. If you like to edit the occasional video or something, or just put something up on Instagram or or TikTok, 32 gigabytes of RAM. Let's go, let's go all in on 32 gigabytes of RAM. How much RAM do you have in your MacBook, Ben?

Ben: I told you 32 gigs, and that was partially subsidized by COVID stimulus checks. There is

Devindra: that too. But 32 gigabytes really gives you room to breathe. And if you're working on a large project, Then yeah, that's something that you definitely want. So I'm just putting that out there now that 16 gigabytes seems like the baseline standard more, most folks will be fine with that, but if you are a pro, a prosumer, if you're a creative professional, at least 32 gigabytes, now Mac and PC would be a good.

Yeah.

Ben: I feel like my position on the show is to act as the non expert, but still smarter than maybe the average user, a little bit smarter than the average user. And so when I was specking out this laptop. I was thinking, okay, I want the M1 Pro because it's still going to be, like, so much of an upgrade over the Intel chip in my 2012 era MacBook Pro.

And also, I want to be able to future proof it, so I didn't know what was going to happen in the future. Generative AI, all of that stuff was just getting started around the time when I finally Pushed purchase on this laptop and I'm really happy that I did some future proofing and went for the 32 gig option

Devindra: Definitely always future proofing especially I think our recommendation was Ben that you do that because what you can't do You can't open up a Mac of any kind now not a laptop not a desktop unless it's a Mac Pro No, you can't even do with the Mac Pro because the Mac Pro is also running an M series chip.

There is no memory upgrades are not a thing anymore, at least on a self contained chip like this. So yeah, buy as much as you can you know, suffer a little bit to put more RAM in there if you have to.

Ben: Okay. So let's talk about this adorable Mac Mini. I

Devindra: think the Mac mini is the star of the week, right?

Because this thing we expected new Mac mini Mark Gurman was reporting like there would be some sort of small redesign. It is small or small as internet would say it it's five inches by five inches. It measures two inches tall. If you look at the pictures, like it's just like on somebody's fingertips.

This is a. It's a small boy, but it's not a weak boy because it has the M4 chip. And it also introduced the M4 pro chip, which is supposed to be really, really fast. And this is a good time to think about what the Mac mini represents to you. Like I remember when this thing came out, I was also working in it.

around 2005. That original Mac Mini was kind of a slow little box, but it was an interesting idea that not many people were doing. I honestly think you can, you can like really trace the small PC trend back to the Mac Mini because Intel's NUCs and other things people did kind of followed with what that was.

Do you have any experience with the Mac Mini? Ben, any thoughts on the previous Mac Minis?

Ben: The studio that I used to work at on the Upper West Side ran entirely on a Mac Mini.

Devindra: Amazing. Like you can, and that was like years ago, right? That was like before the M series Mac. Oh yeah,

Ben: yeah, no. And this was also done by like old school audio engineers who really value the stability of their like workspaces over everything.

So they are very slow to upgrade. And this thing was still chugging along really well.

Devindra: Yeah, yeah. I mean, so the Mac mini has been a great thing for a while. The last one did that one get the M3 chip? I think they had skipped that one, but the last Mac mini I reviewed where they introduced the pro chip for the first time.

That thing blew me away because that thing was just super fast. It kind of delivered most of what you wanted from a Mac studio, but it was far cheaper than studio with the pro chip, it was still more expensive than like the base model. It was like 1299. Let me look up that review actually.

Ben: Plus it looks like it's small enough to fit in the enormous pockets of JNCO jeans that are coming back in style.

Very slowly.

Devindra: Honestly, I don't even think you need like big baggy JNCO jeans. Really saying, I think this thing could fit in like a normal jean pocket, or at least I've been able to fit large packages in mine. I don't know. That's the whole like thing. This it's, it's adorably small. I think, you know, the Mac mini has just been something when I reviewed the the M2 pro mini last year.

Early last year, that was January 28th, 2023. I was just super impressed by the M2 Pro chip. And they're kind of doing that again here. I think for most people, this is kind of all the desktop you need. Certainly all the Mac desktop you need. It's also like the. Only new one with an M Pro chip that you can, er, an M4 chip that you'll be able to buy.

The Mac Studio has not been updated yet, so they're projecting like maybe spring for that. But you know what, like this thing, this thing is great. This thing is so tiny you can put it pretty much anywhere. It also comes with 16 gigabytes of RAM standard. Still starts at 599 with the base M4 chip. But that's, yeah,

Ben: that's base M4.

That's still pretty powerful. Also, yeah. Let's talk about the ports for a second too. So they're all

Devindra: Thunderbolt now? They're all the rear ones I believe are Thunderbolt because they have the little Thunderbolt picture on them But let's talk about those ports because you'll notice something up front that we complained about with the last review Ports up front Last year, if you wanted like a Mac with accessible USB ports up front, you had to get a Mac Studio.

That was like one of the big reasons to do it. And it almost seemed it seems like Apple saw that criticism and directly addressed that. So there were two USB C ports up front. There's also the headphone jack up front. Around the back the base M4 model gets you Thunderbolt 4 support, which is, which is pretty good.

But if you go up to the M4 Pro, you get Thunderbolt 5 support. And that is really interesting. It's the first time we've seen Thunderbolt 5 on Macs. It's also it's not really on many PC systems yet. I had written up Thunderbolt 5 last year. Let me see here. It delivers up to three times the bandwidth of Thunderbolt 3.

So that's pretty good memory, like a memory bandwidth should also be much better with the new Thunderbolt. So that's kind of interesting because it does open up the. Door for better external GPU support. We didn't really like external GPU docs for a while because Thunderbolt three and before were just a little slow.

If you bought a nice CPU, you were not getting all that speed. Now you could potentially do that. I've also seen Apple and others talk about things like AI accelerators, which are just like little GPU boxes, basically that just do AI work, not even for like games. Yeah. So that's what that opens up.

And that M4 pro. Mac mini starts at 13. 99. That's what you'd pay for a decently powerful desktop, you know? So if you are somebody working in audio or video and you don't need the full capabilities of the Mac studio, which is especially

Ben: video, because if you need to Dump like 120 GBPS onto a drive or something.

That's probably going to be video. That's probably going to be like really complicated, like 3d rendering or something like that's an

Devindra: enormous amount

Ben: of

Devindra: data. That's a ton of data. That's the main thing. And 1399, Hey, it is much more expensive than the base model, but that is a really powerful little system.

And look at how far we've come from like the giant desktop towers. I have a giant desktop tower down here. Okay. A pocketable desktop computer. That's nuts. It's just, it's, it's super great. It's one of those things where I've showed this to people and they were like, I don't really need this, but I want to give it a home.

I want to find a place for it. Yeah.

Ben: Because it looks like a puppy. It's adorable. But also, that reminds me, a few weeks ago when we were talking off stream, off podcast, I was saying something about how maybe it would be worth investing in a, Mac mini, because it's just every time I take my laptop out, especially because this is like the biggest investment that I think I've ever made.

I have never bought a car and this thing that I have in front of me right now is the price of, let's say, a kind of decent used car circa 2019. A while ago, before the pandemic.

Devindra: Maybe, maybe 2019, but it depends. I mean, how much So Yeah, go ahead.

Ben: Every time I take it out in the wild, I'm like, Oh, I don't like this.

This is not a controlled environment. Like it is in my house. So I thought it would be nice to get another thing that would just sit on my desk and like never actually have to go out into the elements. It's also

Devindra: nice to have a fail safe. It's nice to have another system to turn to if. your MacBook explodes or won't boot for some reason.

Like I think in general, if you're a professional, I hope not. If you're a professional that relies on your computers, the best thing you could do is have more than one computer. I think that's like a pretty, pretty good sound piece of advice. But you

Ben: said that the Mac mini might end up being underpowered due to, I think like inability to get heat

Devindra: out.

Can you say more about that? I mean, I think that was, I don't know if I had said that recently though, Ben, because like the, the M4, the M series chips in general don't get super hot. So I think that's partially why Apple was able to make this thing so much smaller. It is bringing in air, like the intake fans are like on the bottom.

You can see some fins there. So it is bringing in air and it's doing great. It's like dealing with heat in some ways, but how big can the fans actually be on a thing like this? I don't know. I think Apple had the video or had the thing in the actual let me see in their launch video.

Ben: I'm looking forward to seeing a teardown of this to see what the actual diameter of the fan is going to be.

Devindra: Yeah. I mean, it's probably just one big fan, I believe. But I don't think you need to worry about heat too much because the Apple Silicon chips in general. Don't generate that much heat so the fact that they can do this the fact that they can still have MacBook airs out there They're decently powerful with no fans is you know It's a testament to like what they've been doing in terms of low power

Ben: unless you have your desk in front of a window And Sun is coming down directly on it.

Maybe talked about a while ago. Then

Devindra: be safe You know, you could give your, give your Mac mini a little home, give it a little like sunshield box, you know, as long as there's airflow underneath because build a little cabana for it, a little cabana, but also make sure there's airflow in that cabana. When I was in it, like that was the thing people would complain, oh, my PC is always reboot properly.

I'm like, well, you have your. Desktop system in a cubby in a closet with a closed front door. There's no air coming through. You know, it's like you're choking your computer to death. I think that's less of a problem here. But anyway, I'm, I'm really excited about this thing. So Mark Dell in the chat says no Mac studio, no Mac studio.

Not yet. I think the MacStudio is still running M2 chips, right? So the thinking now is that there's going to be a spring event where we get more on M4 for MacStudio. There's also no MacBook Air announcement yet with M4 chips, but more on that soon. Yeah.

Ben: And I guess if you're talking about like visual branding or something like that, Apple might be like, okay, so now we can say that the Mac mini is truly mini, and they might use a similar.

Like slightly updated version of the case for the old Mac mini on the Mac studio. And they can say okay, now this is you're slightly bigger, but way more powerful entertainment production workstation.

Devindra: I don't, I don't think they need to do that at all. Like the Mac mini exists to be powerhouse where you don't have to worry about heat.

You don't have to worry about anything. And also they need to have room for all those ports on the Mac mini. So the Mac studio is what I mean. So the Mac studio is meant to be the more powerful thing. The thing is, nobody is buying the Mac pro like they updated the Mac pro. We saw that last year. Nobody can afford that thing.

It also functionally is not that much better than the max studio with the max chips or the pro chip. So I think the vast majority of creators, unless you're like high end visual effects, people at Disney or something, Are running Mac studios and you need room and in that

Ben: case you're actually just like throwing something to a render farm probably probably not doing it on your desktop probably

Devindra: I mean you're probably doing like pre renders and stuff on your desktop and then throwing it to render farm for final work certainly no final jobs are being done on an actual machine.

Single desktop, but you know, the, the Mac studio is a really interesting thing. And I wonder, I'm wondering if Apple's rethinking like how that thing is going to be positioned because it's much more expensive. I think for the vast majority of creatives, like this thing, this Mac mini with the M4 pro chip is kind of it, and I don't need it.

I certainly don't need it, but I am tempted to get one and make it my Plex server or something just make it a little headless system that sits somewhere that I can tap into.

Ben: But also think about it a tech guy like you probably has a lot of pretty decent monitors just lying around, and so if you're talking about the possibility of getting a iMac to set up in some public place for Sophia or, you know, both of your kids to use as they grow up.

Why not actually just get this? Cause this is really easy. It's also very portable. I'm certainly thinking about that. It's less of an investment

Devindra: for you. I bought my wife an ultrawide monitor for her like office space years ago. So she uses that occasionally with her laptop, but now there is an open space in our upstairs office area where we could just plug in a Mac mini and the kids can go.

But I can't bring that to like the kitchen, right? Or I can't bring that to downstairs. So the kids can do something where we're all around. And that's where it's

Ben: not an all in one,

Devindra: all in one. So that's where like the, the whole setup issues come in. Anyway, I'm freaking, I cannot wait to get my hands on this thing.

It is adorable. This is I think a testament to the whole idea of a small desktop too. Like if, if you had told me this is what a Mac mini would look like way back in 2005, 20, almost 20 years ago. You know, I would have been shocked because I was there used to digging into large Dell desktops and things like that.

That was my life back then. We have come so far. The only downside is like nothing is upgradable anymore. You can't upgrade the Ram. You can't swap out you know, your wifi card if something goes wrong. So that is the

Ben: price we pay for all that. And I think the last thing that came out during this Mac week was that the AirPods Pro 2 hearing features were finally released.

Is that true? That's one of the things.

Devindra: Yeah. The AirPods Pro 2 hearing features the hearing tests and all that stuff is up there. I believe we have a post on that so you can check to see. If the, if your AirPods think you have hearing issues, I think everybody should do this because we don't think enough about our hearing like what the status of our actual hearing is.

So

Ben: the thing that I still wish I got out of Apple's health app, cause I'm checking it all the time just to see how many steps I took. That's my pedometer. Then I see the other thing of you know, hearing check or something. This was, you know, an older version of iOS because I have an old phone as we've talked about.

It's telling me like how loud. The things I've been listening to are, and it only works when I have my wired earpods in. I really wish that they could have done something to make third party Bluetooth earbuds more compatible with the health app, because I am curious how much I'm putting into my ears every day.

Speaker: Yeah.

Ben: I work with these things and I can only get it like during the maybe like 20 minutes to 45 minutes a week. I spend using the ear pods for the best quality phone mic because sometimes I like to do business calls with that. And I think that honestly, if you're giving someone a Bluetooth.

Quality of your voice that sounds a little bit unprofessional. I want to sound as professional as possible. I

Devindra: think the AirPods mics, like if you're using an AirPod versus the EarPod versus the wire, it's, it's not a huge difference from what I

Ben: was saying. Yeah, I just don't have AirPods. I have

Devindra: Jabra.

Suggested by you. Yes, I did. That was years ago. That was certainly years ago. Now is a good time, Ben, to do that upgrade. Whenever you upgrade your iPhone, you're in the ecosystem, man. Now this is the thing like Apple can do, just

Ben: go for it.

Devindra: Apple can do this with AirPods, like to add in all these new features because they have their own wireless chip.

They can do things beyond what plain Bluetooth headsets have. Jabra doesn't even exist anymore. Jabra is not making headsets anymore or headphones. It sucks. It sucks that that company has just fully given up on the market. Yeah, but anyway, I think this is a cool feature. I also, this is tempting me as I want to get like a professional ear cleaning, which I know is a thing and is like the big social media hype thing right now, but I kind of want to do that.

I'm pretty sure you would, you would probably benefit a lot from that, Ben. Cause we, we always have stuff in our ears. Oh

Ben: yeah, no. I was told by a ENT that I have that kind of earwax, but we'll move on from that very quickly. Let's move on from the earwax talk. So, Also, MacBook Pro. We should talk about the MacBook Pro.

Oh, yeah, MacBook Pro. The last thing that I wanted to say about the hearing features is that I'm still reticent to use it. even if I could, even if I had all the equipment that I needed, just because getting that assessment, and then just having to sit with it, might be a little bit scary. That is human psychology.

I would much, yeah, so I'd much prefer doing a very similar thing at the combined ENT audiologist place, because then at least I can ask some follow up questions, rather than having to sit. there and feel branded with the Oh my God, I can't hear the mosquito tone anymore.

Devindra: Doing it at home may, may encourage more people to like, go get their ears checked out.

I think that's a big benefit here too. So that's, that's, it's, it's going to be a huge thing. I've not done that test yet. So I need to do that. We should talk about them. Okay. So MacBook Pro. They are getting the M4 chips they're gonna get the M4, M4 Pro, and the new M4 Max chip, which was also introduced this week.

Apple's not really giving us many details on these chips, by the way. We know the M4 Max is gonna be a 16 core CPU. The M4 Pro is a 14 core CPU, 20 core GPU. The plain M chip is available in either 8 or 10 core variations in a 10 core. GPU. So that's kind of like how they're scaling it. It's also why like the Mac Mini with the M4 Pro is twice the cost of the of the base Mac Mini.

That's just kind of what you're paying for there. There really aren't any changes, like not many major changes to the new MacBook Pros. They are bringing the space black color, which was on the 16 inch down to the 14 inch now. Everything starts with 16 gigabytes of RAM. Great. That was one of our complaints with the 14 inch MacBook Pro last time I reviewed it.

Let me see here. There's also this and the iMac also have a nano texture option for their screens. And that could be useful for anybody doing work in really bright environments or direct sunlight. So if you're like, if you're working in the desert and MacBook out there, you Even with a great high quality screen, there will be glare, it'll be hard to make things out.

The nanotexture stuff kind of erases a lot of that glare. From what I hear, it also messes with color accuracy and HDR output. So most people It would actually be a worse thing for most people, but if you are in that super bright environment, nanotexture could be great. The MacBook Pros have 1000 nits of SDR brightness now, up from 600 nits.

Also, they both have 12 megapixel center stage webcams. The iMac also has a better webcam. And before they just had 1080p, very basic 1080p cameras. So that's all, good thing. Same starting price for the MacBook Pros, 1599 for the 14 inch. 19. 99 for the M4 Pro model, the 16 inch still starts at 24. 99.

And also if you are in a school, take advantage of those education discounts because they shave off like easily a hundred bucks. And that, that makes a big difference. You know, do that. Many schools also offer like ways to buy, pay for things over time, or you could buy it from Apple store and do the paying over time and it builds your credit.

It's like a thing. I'm not going to say, go, go take out a loan on a computer, but you know, if you break up a more expensive device into smaller monthly payments, It hurts a lot less. That's how I freelanced and got decent computers while I was freelancing. So yeah,

Ben: how long has it been that the MacBook pro had 10 ADP cameras?

So finally, finally, I think since,

Devindra: I mean, it was, I think since I moved to the M one chip, Or since the M2, when the major MacBook pro redesign was, I was like late 2021, I believe then they got 1080p cameras and Apple just never really focused that much on cameras. We've complained about them forever, but now that they have center stage, now that they're doing more processing with the camera stuff.

And I think that's a big deal. Now Apple realized like, Oh yeah, people need to do a lot more video calls and video conferencing than they used to. The pandemic certainly accelerated that. So. There's that whole thing. One thing I do want to mention the MacBook airs, the current M two MacBook air and the and the M three modeled now also start with 16 gigabytes of Ram, the M two MacBook air starts at nine 99, the M three model starts at 10 99, just, just get that like it is.

We're spending an extra 100 for that 16 gigabytes of Ram. That's great.

Ben: And it's especially good because that's the computer that I know a lot of people will bring to college. And so it gives you a lot more wiggle room in terms of what you can do on that computer. You don't know what class you're going to end up taking.

You might end up taking a video editing or audio editing class. And I've watched people try to do heavy lift stuff on MacBook Airs, and it's been sad. It's

Devindra: been, I mean, that stuff has been sad, but I've seen people try to bring Chromebooks to college, you know, I'm like, I, I, I strongly, strongly, We're, you know, trying to get people out of Chromebooks for college stuff.

Like Chromebooks are great for grade school stuff right now. Like in kindergarten, my daughter occasionally messes with a Chromebook in school. That's the level of work you can do with a Chromebook maybe into high school. But once you're doing college work with like major programs, not so much.

Ben: Yeah, I don't think they're doing it because they think they can get away with a Chromebook.

I think it's because the Chromebooks are cheap.

Devindra: Oh, most definitely. Chromebooks, I mean, that's the thing, but we are, I'm at least trying to encourage people at least get a Windows laptop, at least get something that is a little more flexible and functional. And I think that would make a big difference, especially in college where you don't want to be like, Two or three years in like swapping computers and stuff, you know You kind of want to have something that lives with you for a while and it is your everything when you're in college, right?

It's your TV. It's your work machine. It's Everything everything for you. So anyway good news We don't know like what Apple intelligence will do down the line like will these features start to be super memory intensive? Will 16 gigabytes not feel like enough if you're running some crazy AI feature down the line?

We don't know We kind of don't know what any of that stuff is. But hey, for now, good news.

Ben: So I do have some questions from the chat and chat. Now is your time to put in additional questions because this is going to be on the final audio recording finally. And. If you want to participate in chat, remember stop in on the Engadget YouTube page, Thursday mornings.

That's U S Eastern time at 10 45. You can also join in. You can maybe have your name said on air as well. So, first one that we have is from Wes Jackson, and this was from early in the segment, and Wes Jackson was saying it's kind of a big yawn for everything, so maybe that's why they didn't do a song and dance.

Maybe that's why they didn't give us the silly graphs.

Devindra: Kind of. I mean, I could see Apple of yore doing an event, like some gathering for the Mac Mini, because I think the Mac Mini is worth celebrating. That is a cool design. It is like an engineering feat that they've been able to make that thing so small.

And then Danny Diaz says,

Ben: I like these mini events. The format allows me to digest the event right from Apple. Otherwise I just end up seeing the super cuts on YouTube anyway.

Devindra: Pretty much. I think that's, that's it. And Apple is aware of like people getting tired of these, the major events too. It's sort of the Marvel problem, sort of the Star Wars problem, right?

If you have too much, you dilute the market with things and people are less excited for when you actually have something big that you want them to pay attention to. So I'm sure Apple is well aware of that and changing attention spans. Maybe someday we'll see something happen entirely in a short form social media to like all span through 10 TikTok videos, you know, or 10 YouTube shorts to see this entire announcement.

Maybe we'll get there.

Ben: Buddy 305 love says to me specifically, Ben HP has been making pocket sized PCs for years. Yes. Do you know a model that I can

Devindra: go look up? Are they any good? Like Intel has been making small NUCs forever. A lot of PC companies have been doing this. I reviewed way back when, when I first started in gadget, like 2014, 2015, I used to review the Intel what do they call it?

The compute stick, which was just stick that plugged into your HD HDMI port. It. And that's it. That's it. Or no, it was a stick that you plug in. So it's like a

Ben: Roku that sticks into a TV and you can make an, a TV, a computer,

Devindra: basically. It was a cool thing that they could do, but they gave up on it because it was expensive and nobody was really using it.

And you were really limited what you could do with that form factor. So

Ben: I'm looking it up. It's like HP Elite Mini 800 G9 desktop PC. Yes. That looks pretty small. HP G2 Mini G9. So, this one, the Elite Mini. 800 G9 is 699. That's almost 700. And then the HP Z2 Mini G9 workstation, that's 1300. So we're getting toward Mac Mini with M4 Pro prices

Devindra: there.

Simon B. Ask a good question. Do we actually know what is Apple intelligence? Simon B, for the love of God, go to Engadget. com or search Google Engadget. com Apple intelligence, because we have been writing about this for the past six months.

Ben: Okay. What if they're asking a more conceptual, like existential question?

What, what, what is truth? What is

Devindra: truth? I mean, like the Apple intelligence, To recap for everybody is Apple spin on all the AI features we've seen coming to PCs and other systems. It's like the copilot stuff in windows, but Apple intelligence specifically is more focused on delivering features in things you're actually using.

So, if you have a newer iPhone. You get iOS 18. 1, take a look at your notifications and the way like you're instead of like a, a wall of 10 notifications from one of your cameras or something, you will get a condensed thing of Hey, saw somebody up front for a while, you know, or if you have a wall of messages or texts from your friends, it tries to condense that into a thing that is easily grokkable before diving into all the individual messages.

Ben: I don't like that X took Grok away from the old school sci fi fans. What you

Devindra: do is not even acknowledge what Grok, what X did. So how about we just use the word like we, like we normally do. Yeah, no,

Ben: and that, that is Heinlein. Yes. That is, that belongs to Heinlein. That belongs to someone who Yeah, and even he's not, not a great dude, but anyway, that's Buddy305love says that I should also check out the Atom Man X7 Ti yeah, this looks pretty cool.

I like the screen on the front that will show you like some stats about I think the temperature and, you know, maybe like how It's adorable. Full the SSD is like, yeah, that's that's cool. I didn't know that these existed. I'm sorry I'm just the producer. I apologize. They

Devindra: said this thing is super cool.

But what is what is the system Intel ultra 9? So you're using Intel's graphics hit or miss right like hit or miss with what you could do with that I think what's interesting about the Mac mini is that it is Apple's GPU stuff has been proven to be pretty good. Like you can, you can run some decent games on that.

More games are coming over to Mac steam support for some games is there. I'm just more overall impressed by the amount of computing work you could do. But yes, there are PC variants to this too. I don't think as small as a new Mac mini though, at least from what I've seen.

Ben: Yeah. And then Mark Dell says, Oh, my dad is using the AirPods pro and he's amazed by the hearing aid feature.

He says it's going to change his life.

Devindra: Yes. I've heard that from a bunch of people and not even not even older folks. Like they're people. In their twenties and thirties who have hearing issues and they don't want to be walking around with hearing aids because there's like a social stigma to it, or they don't want to like, just be doing that.

Now you could just have AirPods in and have some of that help. So that's great.

Ben: It's true, especially when I like go to a grocery store or something I see a lot of people who are working at the grocery store. Just have one air pod in their hand. That's what I do. It's how I live. Go off and listen to music.

Yeah, whatever. Whatever makes the shift more bearable. Oh, yeah, go ahead. But, it can also be a sneaky way of being like, Hey, you know what? I blew out my ears listening to like crazy dubstep music or something and now I have hearing loss. Earlier

Devindra: than I would think. There's totally that. I've been actually thinking Man, my life, my high school life would have been so different if I had like wireless earbuds like walk around and have stuff.

Because in high school, like I wish, I wish I could have portable music. I wish I could have a like way to shut out part of the world and stuff. That's a whole thing, but man, things are just so much different now. I see a good question from Wes Jackson. Does the power button on the bottom of the Mac mini bother us or the fact that the mouse, including the iMac and Mac mini still charges on the bottom.

I can tell you what Apple thinks about the mouse specifically, because people will still make fun of it. Whenever I bring this up to an Apple person, they're like well. You just have to plug it in for one minute. You plug it in for one minute and you get like tens of hours of charge time. So I think that's their thing.

They don't want like the visible, they would rather do that than give you a visible port on the bottom or the back of that thing. I also don't think they they've done the work to fully redesign the magic mouse, that whole thing. I. To a certain extent, I kind of understand that, you know, it's annoying when you lose power in the middle of a work session, but also your Mac will, will give you the heads up Hey, you're, you're charging, you don't live at your computer all day, so you could just as you're walking away, plug it in, it would be nice if there was an easier solution to that.

But I kind of understand why Apple is just not too bothered to fix it. The power button on the bottom of the Mac mini. I saw people talking about that too. It's like on the bottom rear corner, instead of like on a port on the back or something, or even directly a print. I know Apple wants to make that thing look clean.

Actually don't think that's a big deal because the magic keyboard has a power button and the way most people will be turning on their Mac is by sitting down, hitting the power button that is on their keyboard. The power button on the system itself is sort of like. Last resort type of thing. It's like you have a hard reset you need to do where you just need to cut power immediately.

You're not going to be in daily usage, reaching around and you know, tapping that power button. So I think that's, that's like the main thing there. Also, a lot of people don't shut down their Macs fully. I disagree with that.

Ben: I turned my computer off. I turned my laptop completely off. Ben, you bought the worst iPhone, so I

Devindra: cannot trust your judgment.

The smallest iPhone. Oh, God. No, but you're right. You're right. A lot of people do that, too. But the keyboard has the power button. Now, if you're using It wasn't the worst iPhone when I bought it. It was a decent iPhone when I bought it. We kind of warned you that that screen would be a problem. You would grow out of that.

But anyway If you have a PC keyboard on your Mac mini, then yeah, you are kind of screwed. Then you are going to be reaching around and you know, hitting that button. That's a pain, but it's not like the end of the world. That thing is tiny. You know, I don't think you're not like shoving it way back on your desk.

Cause you probably want it accessible for the USB port. So it's, it is a choice. Apple is building their systems for people who have Apple accessories. And I think that's mainly what they're thinking about here.

Ben: So if you want to also contribute to our live stream, I'm I say at the end of every live stream it gets cut off from the audio version that the live stream makes us smarter.

It remembers stuff that we forgot. Remember you can always tune in on the Engadget YouTube channel or send us an email at podcast at engadget. com

In other news, the FTC has told Lyft that it needs to tell drivers how much they're actually going to make. What a concept. I said a few weeks ago that I had just finished the, what is it? FX adaptation of super pumped the battle for Uber which was Mike Isaac's book about the founding of Uber and

Devindra: man.

Okay.

Ben: I mean, it's just cause I'm a big JGL head. I'm sorry. I watched angels in the outfield literally until the VHS tape. I've got thoughts about

Devindra: JGL and his current career trajectory, but yes, yes. Yes. Okay. We were referring to Joseph Gordon Levitt kids. If you are confused.

Ben: There was a B plot in the series where Austen Geidt, who was responsible for recruiting the majority of the first wave of drivers for uber Was promising up and down that like all these black car drivers were going to be making Something like double or triple what they were making Just doing traditional ride hailing or working for you know as a contractor for a company And the b plot also went through, you know, this very humble driver saying Oh, well, I want to make more money for my family and like You Tracking how Uber's promise did not actually come true for him, or it only existed for a few months.

So I think this is a fantastic step forward. It's definitely a bit more regulation, so if you don't like regulation, argue with the wall, maybe. Argue with the wall. I just want people to Like actually be able to plan their finances and the fact that These like rideshare services really everything as a service Sort of companies play a shell game with people who are otherwise low wage workers.

That's not

Devindra: great It's not great and also because Taxi driving used to be a pretty reliable job for a lot of people especially like immigrants moving to America like There are the jokes about immigrant taxi drivers, but it is a thing that people have done in New York. You, you work towards paying off like a taxi medallion, right?

Like you would buying a house. That's a, just an investment for you basically. So it's I've hated what these companies have all done. Like I was, I don't know if you remember this, Ben, you remember the era before Uber and Lifter and everything New York used to have Halo. Which I think was a London based startup.

There used to be like a couple different ones. If you're in New York, you can also hail normal cabs with the curb app. I really liked the curb app actually. But before then, I still see people using their hands. I use using your hand, New York. That's a great thing. It doesn't work at everywhere. I've learned in Las Vegas, you cannot hail a taxi because you have to do it at the hotel bases, basically, and taxi drivers get annoyed picking up anywhere else.

But yes, there used to be old ways of doing it. When these companies came in, like I, all I saw from Uber and Lyft was just like pure bullshit, pure bullshit to get themselves into markets and everything New York, because it had such a strong taxi. It has a taxi commission. It has a strong taxi industry.

They were able to resist. So you don't get Ubers with normal people driving in New York, New York, Uber drivers, Uber and Lyft drivers have to be like still technically limousine drivers. That's kind of the whole deal. Something I also learned when I moved away from New York you don't, you get bad drivers.

You get really bad drivers on Uber and Lyft because normal people just driving around in their cars. Not fun. Not great. Anyway, that's a good thing. That's a good thing. You also want to bring up this thing about OpenAI, Ben. I know you were interested in this. OpenAI's Whisper.

Ben: Yeah, because it's something that we use to transcribe the podcast now.

I just let my otter subscription lapse because. I was using it for another client. I was using it, you know, five or six times a week. So I figured, okay, yeah, I can take this off of my taxes. It's like a hundred dollars a year or something. Now. I'm not working with those folks anymore. So I don't know if I can really justify the expense of not using this five or six times a week.

So I'm like, okay, what else am I going to do? LLMs have gotten so much better for transcription especially. So let's go off and try this. I got Mac Whisper a while ago. And it's Good. It needs some work. I

Devindra: mean, because Mac whisperer

Ben: UI needs some work.

Devindra: I love Mac whisperer. We talked about it, but that essentially runs the whisper, the opening out with whisper model on your system.

So it takes forever. It takes especially on an M one system, Ben, it probably takes you like what, half an hour to an hour to transcribe a podcast or something.

Ben: No, not really. I mean, I had two hours of tape from like a bunch of different speakers. It didn't have diarization, which is the fancy way of saying like differentiation, which is essential if you're

Devindra: doing transcript.

If you want a transcription tool, it has to kind of do that. There

Ben: were so many different voices in this though. This is something that I recorded in a big, busy, you know, New York City park. I'm hanging out with this guy who he's doing an art project. This is a guy who is kind of running a stand, so people come up to him.

And so there are so many different speakers. I really wish that there were Additional speakers or, or that you could differentiate between speakers. But the thing that I haven't seen that is something that Reuters was talking about just at the end of last week is that OpenAI's Whisper has a tendency to just make stuff up whole cloth as if, you know, it's trying to infer maybe some garbled speech or something like that, and then it will just like kind of free associate.

And the problem is that people are using this in hospitals. That's a situation where you really can't have something just go off all crazy, especially because if it goes off all crazy and it sounds a little scary or something, like I saw some examples in the Associated Press, not Reuters, Reuters would get mad at me for that.

The, the AP article saying that You know, sometimes it got a little bit scary. It said you know, stuff about violence and knives and things like that. Hospitals have psych wards in them! It's very possible that you could have someone talking about that, and if you had some kind of, I don't know automatic flagging tool for whether or not to get someone a PsycheVal, that would be a PsycheVal based on OpenAI's free association.

But we're getting

Devindra: ahead of ourselves. It's a sensitive data environment. I think that's the main thing. So Hey, I use we've talked about using the tool descript. I use them for like producing our transcriptions and I go in and like tweak stuff, like people's names and like Hardaware names. It doesn't get right.

I use that also for producing the social media videos and the audiograms we put out. We are not. You know, we're, we're just a couple of people talking about technology. And I do look over the transcripts and I tweak things as I need to. I have basically been like, I'm okay if a couple words or some things are kind of wrong because the overall transcript is still a useful service to people who need it.

And it's also a useful service to like search engines and things like that. But in the medical environment, or if it's like sensitive legal information, like I would be really careful. About using any of these AI tools. Yeah.

Ben: So, the politicians are live streaming, once again. What do you have to say about that, Devendra?

Devindra: I do have to say about that. Let's flip to that video. Because what's happening, and I was so excited about this. First of all, I was really excited. When the news dropped that you know, Kamala Harris's VP candidate, Tim Walsh is a Dreamcast fan, is a Crazy Taxi fan. So over the weekend, I believe Tim Walsh and AOC did a Crazy Taxi live stream and it just brought back all, all the joy.

It's also, I don't, I don't think I don't think AOC has seen Crazy Taxi before. So it's also introducing a new person into this world and the That's surprising to me. Just like the, the insanity of crazy taxi. I love this game. I love the dreamcast. I've talked about how much I love the dreamcast, but Tim Tim was just has yeah, pure, pure love for it.

This was fun to see. And it was certainly a much more fun thing to talk about rather than the Nazi rally that happened in New York. So here's what I'm going to do. And to listeners to this podcast, all I can tell you is. This is a pretty, pretty important election for America for the future of this country.

So if you care about any of this stuff, you should probably vote. I'm not going to tell you who to vote for. But you know, read, read things, please read the news. Please read about what is actually happening. I will fully endorse on my end. Like I already voted for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. I put in my early voting in Georgia.

Because I didn't want like any of the weird, like ballot mess that's going to happen. Like this next week is going to be a mess in this, in this state, in a lot of other States, we've already seen ballot boxes being set on fire. We've seen people intimidating others at voting, you know, at polling booths.

Not great. Just, it's going to be a really tough week. Please vote because yeah, this country depends on it. Ben, any, you want to add anything there?

Ben: Only that Tim Walz would probably love the Simpsons hit and run.

Devindra: Oh yeah, absolutely. He would totally love it. I mean, he would be what I, the, the real baller move would be like if Tim Walls just pulled out his like 1000 hour fantasy star online character, because the true dreamcast heads know the fantasy star online was one of the pioneering in games for like console RPGs.

It was barely an MMO, but on consoles, we didn't really have much. And the fact that you could plug in a 33. 6 modem or a 56 K modem on a dreamcast and play. An RPG over phone lines with people from your couch blew me the hell away. So, you know, I will always love you. Dreamcast. He

Ben: is most likely to have fantasy college football,

Devindra: I

Ben: think, rather than fantasy.

I mean, weren't they playing

Devindra: a Madden or something too? They were playing a football game. as well. So

Ben: of course, of course, of course. So the age of ice cream machine broke is finally over. McDonald's can finally service their own machines. They can finally get around the Hardaware locks. Finally, the FTC was like, you know what?

It is really dumb that you can only have one approved technician come and fix something that is Hardaware locked in this way. We don't have enough technicians. You can also. Charge exorbitant amounts of money. So if you're annoyed about, you know, the right to repair issues on your phones, computers, and laptops, if you're annoyed at Apple, especially because so many people are like, Oh my God, I like would never get.

Anything in the Apple ecosystem because of how difficult it is to fix, then you are already a right to repair advocate, and you should be throwing your votes behind maybe an administration that supports right to repair,

Devindra: too. Or workers, or things like that. Specifically, the mystery behind why McFlurry machines break down all the time is that McDonald's corporate has to send somebody, like an official repair person, to fix that machine at every franchise.

Exactly.

Ben: Yeah. And so it is ends up being a game of you can't put out enough fires because everybody loves the McFlurries, so they're going to be used a lot, which means that the moving parts are going to get end up getting messed up. And the next thing we need to do is the same thing, but for John Deere tractors.

Devindra: I mean, It's

Ben: right to repair all the way down. Right

Devindra: to repair all the way down. I mean, we saw a bunch of stories. Farmers are like hacking their, their tractors to fix them. Right. That is, that is the way things should be. And it's funny to talk about this now too, because we were also talking about man, that Mac mini sure is adorable and cute.

You got nothing to repair there, buddy. Like it's all, it's all one little chip and like a circuit board. I'm like, nothing is fully removable and you can't really do much. You can open it up. But there's nothing much that you can do as a consumer. So that is the price we pay for like cute, well, you know, pretty looking electronics.

We kind of miss that. We kind of miss that sometimes. And sometimes you need to just dive in and fix a big machine. So hopefully this will mean more working McFlurries. Are you a big McFlurry consumer, Ben?

Ben: I was actually like within the last few years, I've started thinking like, man, I got to Change my relationship with food.

Not that it was bad or anything. It's just like I'm the only one looking out for myself

Devindra: Also, you're you're getting older Ben. You're gonna feel it. You're feeling it We are watching here, by the way, the I fix a video about why the McFlurry machines are always broken And how to fix them. So thank you to I fix it for always.

Thank you for your service. I fix it. I've always wondered what's going on back there. My kids, like we try to avoid McDonald's honestly, but I don't, I don't have any major qualms around it, but I think we went on vacation last year at some point. The McDonald's was like the only thing at the rest stop to go to.

And now my daughter calls it a happy dinner. All she wants is a happy dinner once in a while. And that's great. That's great. She doesn't demand it. Honestly, I wish she would demand happy meals more often because what she does demand instead is like the stuff I've started giving her. She really likes pho.

She really likes poke. These kids, that's expensive and difficult to do. It's expensive. And then yeah, I can, I could get that delivery 20 for a single, you know, thing for her. Also, I don't know what happened to pho, but at least out here in Georgia, we have a huge immigrant population, a lot of great food from all across Asia, but God damn.

Everything is expensive. Pad Thai 20, 20 before delivery fees. Pad Thai is a five. It should be a 5 dish that you get really easily at a local restaurant or something, but anyway. That's that's the news. Thank you. Hopefully the McFlurries will feel better. I want to shout out a couple of things that we just covered here at NNGadget.

First of all, we have a review of the Kindle ColorSoft. Valentina Palladino, our deputy editor of commerce and buying advice, covered that for us. She's calls it the missing link in Amazon's e reader lineup. Score of 84. She really likes it. And this thing looks cool. We were doing some comparisons, like in Slack, we were comparing it to like the Kobo color reader.

And I think we all noticed that the Kobo's color screen looks a little more saturated, like the colors are just punchier, but Valentina still likes this, and if you're in the Kindle ecosystem, I can't blame you for all your books and your entire libraries there. This is certainly a good option. I have been a Kindle user for a long time.

Last year, I picked up a Kobo e reader just to start separating myself from Amazon. And you know, what's really tough is having multiple e readers. Because then it's Oh, my, my other library is over there. Tell

Ben: us more about your first world problem.

Devindra: It's a really annoying thing. This is how it works.

This is how like the lock in happens is that you can't just bring your Amazon library to Kobo or something. You can put some of those books on your computer and do the, whatever stripping it is to make it an EPUB book and then get that over to Kobo. But man, that's just a pain. So I, I dunno, I'm doing new books on Kobo old books.

I'm still haven't really are still on my Kindle. The color soft looks very cool. I think that's a big takeaway we can have here. I still don't know if like a Kindle. I don't know if I need a color e reader. I would love like a bigger color thing that would be better for comics, but tablet screens have gotten so good, especially with OLED Oh, I'm just such a big old fan.

I think that's the main thing for me. We also have a review of the DJI action Osmo action five pro. for Mr. Steve Dent. He says it's finally a worthy GoPro rival. So that's that's a good thing. Are you an action camera fan Ben? I'd like to be.

Ben: I'd like to have a little drone just to play around with.

Devindra: For you, I would more recommend the DJI Osmo Pocket, which is a little, the portable little camera we use because you may occasionally be doing video production stuff. But you know, I like an action camera. I bought a GoPro like a couple of years ago and I swear to God, I have not actually been able to use it for anything.

It's a, it's very much an aspirational device. My, we do, we do have a small drone and you know what the drone does? It flies up to my roof and make sure there are no more holes in my roof or chimney, like it's, the drone goes places.

Ben: That's actually a great way to inspect your own roof. I've never thought about that.

A

Devindra: lot of roofing companies will just send a drone up there

Ben: to do the inspection. Wow. Yeah, that's really smart. It's a way to not get on a ladder because so many surgeons say don't get on a ladder for the love of God. And also, it's

Devindra: super easy it takes, you know, a couple minutes to throw a drone up there and you have a high quality camera and a real time feed and all that stuff.

So anyway.

Ben: That seems like the sort of thing that homeowner's insurance should be covering

Devindra: sometimes. It's a whole thing, Ben. Yes, yes. It does sort of cover it. What roofers do is that they go around neighborhoods and Hey your, your roof's looking kind of old. We can help you get it covered under insurance.

Like it's a whole, they just fly a drone around where they're like, well, we're, we're helping your neighbors and we will throw the drone up there. And they will work to make sure your insurance will pay for the new roof, which can cost like 20, 000 or so. Doing it through insurance. It's like maybe a thousand dollars or whatever for your co pay or 2000.

So yes to action cameras, Ben, I feel like first of all, in terms of what we're working on, I'm working on a lot of stuff. Apple just announced the four different products. Somebody's gonna have to review those products. So some of us, some of us are going to be heads. You know, I'm basically neck deep in a lot of like testing of things right now.

There's a new game console coming soon. We're testing that. We're reviewing that. Let's move on to pics. What do you got?

Ben: It's over the garden wall season, everybody. It's the 10 year anniversary. They did a 10 year anniversary concert in LA, the blasting company that did all of the music for over the garden wall.

Elijah Wood was there. A lot of the original voices were there. Unfortunately, Jack Jones, who is the singing voice of the frog and also just sang a A couple of the other marquee songs for Over the Garden Wall. He was 89 when he died. So he lived a good long life. And you could kind of tell that this was being sung by a kind of gentle voiced old man too.

He had that, that sweetness in his voice. So if you don't know what I'm talking about, this is a mini series from Cartoon Network that premiered in 2014. It is a little bit of just a send up to the holiday season. Spooky season fall season. It is also an adaptation of Dante's. Oh, yes, it

Devindra: is It was also a lot of David the Gnome in there.

I mean, come on. I love David the Gnome

Ben: Yeah, it is. Also it feels very, you know old American and European like mythological and it's also like a huge, huge homage. Why'd I say that? I don't know. It's a homage to classic animation. So this is the animation of the 1930s or so. Rubber hoe, there is one episode that is like really, really relies on rubber hose animation.

of

Devindra: like Fleischer looking stuff in here.

Ben: Yeah. It's about two brothers who get lost in the woods and their entire The goal is to get out. And so if you know about basic mythology and a little bit about Dante's Inferno, you know what's going to happen. They get chased around by spooky stuff. They meet different crazy characters.

It has become a really classic rewatch for a lot of people. I don't know how many other things have been, like, canonized, like Over the Garden Wall has. In the last 15 years,

Devindra: you know, it's, it's very, it's not like a usually popular thing, but it has like basically garnered like a huge cult audience, which I think kind of the perfect thing for this.

So yeah, good show, good show. Check it out. It was also like unavailable to stream for a long time to you. So I'm happy to see that's a, that's a big thing. Let me just, I'm looking at the thing here. Yeah. We're not going to play this trailer. I want to shout out, I want to shout out the Netflix remake of Ranma one half, which is remember, remember that anime series?

Rama was like a classic eighties anime series about a boy who turns into a girl when he gets hit with water and his father turns into a panda. It's comedy. Kind of a romantic comedy, a situational comedy, also action series at time. Cause there was always a lot of good fighting. It's been remade for Netflix, basically following, at least from what I've seen, I've seen the first couple episodes kind of follows the exact same path as the original, but the animation is nice and clean.

It's still a fun watch and you know, it's, it's cozy anime. That is the sort of thing where I'm just like, I could just sit down really enjoy this J pop intro song, the really soothing ending song. It's funny. The action's pretty good too. Like it just looks cool. So I want to shut that out. Like for anime fans.

If you've not seen Ranma before, you can see the original. That is up on Crunchyroll right now. The animation's good. I think that's a, that's a good thing. Especially what happened to Uzumaki, which had a good first episode, and then the animation just went super, super bad. Downhill after that. So Ranma 1. 5 is my recommendation, especially if you checked out Dandadan, like I recommended it's good stuff.

Very different tonally. Very different tonally, but also I feel like a good chaser. Like Dandadan is pure, it's just like a little, a little like crazy, mad, you know, crazy mad anime. And Ranma is much more chill, even though it's about like much more fantastical stuff. Time. So good stuff.

Ben: Thanks everybody for listening.

Our theme music is by game composer, Dale North. Our outro music is by our former managing editor, Terrence O'Brien. The podcast is produced by me, Ben Elman. You can find Devendra online

Devindra: at Devendra on Twitter, BlueSky, Mastodon, everywhere. And a podcast about movies and TV at the Filmcast, at the Filmcast.

Ben: You can find me online at, I don't know, just listen to your router and I might be whispering to you. Don't try to contact me. No, I'm just kidding. If you want to see my old tweets, find me on Twitter. Hey, Bellman H E Y B E L L M A N. Email us at podcast at Engadget. com. Leave us a review on iTunes and subscribe on anything that gets podcasts.

That includes Spotify.

Why'd I say that? It's a homage.