I’M on the phone to Jocelyne Wildenstein.
The name might not be familiar, but you’ve probably heard of Catwoman, the moniker given to 79-year-old Jocelyne for her bizarre, feline features, and a whole lot more besides.
Could she, I ask, tell me about the facial procedures she has had? I settle into my chair - this could take a while.
But no, we race through Jocelyne’s summary of her ‘work’ in a heartbeat.
“I haven’t had plastic surgery,” she says. “I am scared of what can happen and I don’t like to have something heavy. Sometimes it is a bit heavy and terrible.”
Indeed, it turns out Jocelyne has strong views about facial procedures, and they’re not what you might think.
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She hates Botox and, in a world where popping out for a quick top-up is now the norm, would urge women to be cautious about using it.
“I don’t like the Botox,” she says. “Everyone has a different reaction to it. I have had Botox only twice. I don’t know if I am allergic, but when I had it, it did not go well with me. It was not a good result. My face swelled up. If they {other women} want to do it too strong, it doesn’t work well."
Fillers are on the banned list, too. “I never did any fillers. I have some friends who had fillers and were not happy.”
Less is more, is the way to go. As she says: “I am always prudent of what I do.”
Jocelyne is currently in Paris so we’re doing our chat over the phone.
Jocelyne when she was younger is unrecognisable from the woman whose extraordinary face was first splashed over the papers during her divorce from the billionaire art dealer, Alec Wildenstein in the late 1990s.
New data from the British Association of Aesthetic Plastic Surgeons (BAAPS) shows that the number of cosmetic procedures performed in the UK is on the rise - up ten per cent each year since 2020.
Many see Jocelyne as the poster girl for the surgery boom.
Someone, you might think, who would not want or need any work, a woman who would age with grace.
But then there are the photos of her post divorce, from the Nineties, which show a woman whose face has been transformed out of all recognition.
Swiss-born Jocelyne’s extraordinary appearance mirrors her extraordinary life. She grew up in Lausanne but by her late teens had upped to Paris in search of adventure.
She met Alec Wildenstein in 1977, when she visited his wildlife ranch, Ol Jogi, in Kenya.
They married the following year in Las Vegas, and had two children, Diane and Alec Jr.
The pair owned luxurious properties all over the world, and Jocelyn reportedly went through money like it was going out of fashion - $1million a month at one point.
It has been said she went for the Catwoman look to please her husband, who wanted her to look like a lynx.
“I did have a pet lynx, a beautiful lynx, and five pet dogs. I used to take her swimming in the British Virgin Islands. Then we arrived at the ranch in Kenya and she was so happy that I let her stay there.”
She was living the dream.
Then one day Jocelyne reportedly walked into one of her New York apartments and found her husband with a young Russian model. Dream over.
The woman who relentlessly pursued a face of youth for, it seems, her husband, discovered that he’d gone off with the real thing.
Jocelyne became famous during the divorce for two reasons: her face and the stupendous sums of money being fought over.
Today, strange, frozen faces of women who have been a little too enthusiastic with the Botox, are everywhere.
Today, you can get a Botox hit at the dentist or at a beauty salon.
On television, we see reality stars with strange, unmoving features and huge lips. Facelifts at 40 are a reality.
People like Nicole Kidman, natural beauties, have been transformed into clones of other women. Madonna looks like a cartoon version of herself.
Millions of viewers watch plastic surgery videos on TikTok. A generation is growing up thinking that this is quite normal.
Having said that, the actress Lindsay Lohan’s recent ‘glow up’ is a resounding success.
She’s had a series of tweaks estimated to have cost $300,000, but the result, although not exactly natural, is more an enhanced version of herself than a freak show.
This, perhaps, was the original intention, when the cosmetic surgery fad started. But now any boundaries are gone.
Jocelyne is the woman who did it first. Back then, her appearance was seen as downright weird.
It was during Jocelyne’s very public divorce battle in the late 1990s that she - or rather, her extraordinary face - first caught the attention of the public.
Soon she was dubbed Catwoman.
Plastic surgeons have suggested she may have had repeated facelifts, eyelid surgery, chin implants and fillers, as well as possibly rhinoplasty surgery.
Jocelyne is currently living with her partner, Lloyd Klein, a Canadian fashion designer, at her apartment in Paris, Lloyd is 57 to Jocelyne’s 79.
They got together in 2003, four years after her divorce from the billionaire art dealer, Alec Wildenstein.
They seem happy right now, though their relationship is a tempestuous one.
In 2017, for example, the pair were arrested at Jocelyne's Trump Tower apartment after neighbours heard screams and crashing sounds.
Police arrived to find a shattered casserole dish on the floor and Jocelyne and Lloyd dishevelled. She had bruises on her neck and arms, he had a cut to his forehead.
Later, the couple explained that they hadn't been fighting, but having rough sex.
Jocelyne reportedly said: 'Lloyd can be very passionate, he can be a little rough. That's something I enjoy otherwise I wouldn't be with him all this time.'
On the phone she is sweet and giggly, softer than appearances might suggest.
So then, let’s talk a little more about the procedures Jocelyn has, or hasn’t, had.
No face lifts, no Botox, no fillers, but she is a fan of chemical peels.
When was the first one? “I would say I was about 25 or 25. I went to a dermatologist. It was a light peel. I liked it a lot because it prevents the wrinkles later on. So this is something I have had done over the years," Jocelyne says.
"One is quite strong and you can’t go in the sun for two months, the other is quite light, you can’t go in the sun for one month. It peels off and you have fresh skin.
“My goal is to keep the skin fresh. It is good even now, I have to say.” She giggles. “I compliment myself!”
Jocelyne regularly uses a scrub to help keep her skin ‘fresh’. It comes in a pink tube - she can’t pin down the brand right now - and she also recommends a Chanel masque. She never uses moisturiser.
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“I don’t need it, my skin is not dry,” she explains, of this strange quirk of a woman so invested in her face.
What about her famous feline Catwoman eyes?
She ponders: “I have had nothing surgical on the eye. I had on the eyebrow a little lift, on the top of the eyebrow. Each time it is a small rectification. You can do more if you like it, or not if you think it is too much. It’s a small surgery.
“It keeps up a little refreshment in your eye. It’s been quite a while since I had it done though - six or seven years.”
In 1999, it was reported that Jocelyne was awarded a settlement of $2.5billion, plus, in case that wasn’t enough, $100million each year for the next 13 years.
That should have been enough to keep her going but by 2018 she was apparently broke and reportedly filed for bankruptcy. How the hell did that happen?
In an interview last year, Jocelyne said Alec’s family (Alec died in 2008) had terminated her annual payments in 2015.
Unfortunately today she says she can’t talk about money as there’s some sort of legal case going on in the background.
Things don’t seem too bad, though. She has the nice apartment in Paris and the house in the British Virgin Islands. There she knows someone who rents her a plane and she likes to take Lloyd flying.
In 2017, it was reported that they had got engaged, but Jocelyne tells me the engagement was “put together” by the press.
“We feel no need to get married. We have had our children.”
Jocelyne, now a grandmother, and Lloyd are obviously close. He’s a successful designer who lists his clients as, among others, Kim Kardashian, Jane Fonda, Faye Dunaway, Christina Aguilera and Joan Collins.
When he and Jocelyne go to parties, they hang out with models such as Kate Moss, Bella Hadid and Amber Valletta. There’s still a lot of glamour in their lives.
Like most couples, though, they’ve had their ups and downs.
I ask Jocelyne about the time in 2016 she reportedly went for Lloyd with a pair of scissors.
She giggles: “Oh that, yes it was exaggerated. But yes, we fight.”
The two of them are collaborating on a book about Jocelyne’s life. She has taken part in a two-part documentary for HBO, which is currently being edited.
Next September, Jocelyne will celebrate her 80th birthday. Lloyd’s planning a surprise for her.
Will she accept she’s growing older? Not a chance.