Phil Coulter’s legacy knows no bounds. The singer-songwriter is behind a wide range of hits, from the Dubliners’ The Town I Loved So Well to rugby anthem Ireland’s Call. Phil’s career has spanned nearly six decades, but never did he expect to still be hitting the pop charts at age 82, which he has former Little Mix star Jade Thirlwall to thank for. Here, the legend of the Irish music scene chats modern music, bouncing back from disappointments and how he has achieved all of his goals with no regrets.
You were back in the charts in the UK and Ireland this summer thanks to Jade Thirwall’s hit debut single Angel of My Dreams sampling Sandie Shaw’s Puppet on a String – how did that all come about?
I wish I could tell you that I’m on speed dial with Jade, all the girls from Little Mix and all those young cool record producers, but I am not! The honest answer is I didn't have a clue. The first I was aware of it was when one of my grandkids rang me up all excited to tell me Jade was dropping her first single – you don’t release anymore, apparently you “drop” – which was creating a lot of buzz because the first few bars are Puppet on a String. Sampling is quite common now. I read somewhere that she had been trying for years to work it into one of her records because of the way she felt in the early days of Little Mix, like they were being handled like puppets. That was her motivation. So her producers would have had to approach the publisher, Sony Music, who own the copyright to get clearance. To me, the first I knew about it was when it was released and reached No.1 in the download charts in Ireland. I thought, well that’s a good way for her to arrive!
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What do you think of the song?
I’m very grateful she felt so highly of Puppet on a String that she included it. I think her record is very courageous, and by that I mean she didn’t follow the predictable TikTok approach. It’s complex in its structure. Fair play to her for being brave enough to do that and I’m only delighted that the public liked it.
Speaking of the “TikTok approach”, what do you think of modern music now?
As a veteran songwriter, approaching 60 years, I’m very grateful that I learned my trade at the time that I did. And that’s what it was, you had to learn the craft. I was an apprentice for one of the publishers at Tin Pan Alley and that was a three-year period of learning the craft of songwriting. In my belief, there is no such thing as a born songwriter. You’re born with some of the tools, you might have a flair for music and melody, but you have to learn to put it all together. I can’t guarantee that every song I write is a hit, but shame on me if it’s not a well crafted song. Longevity is so important. Puppet on a String and Congratulations are clocking up nearly 60 years in existence. I have a big family with six children and I often say Congratulations fed, clothed and educated them! When you embark on a career as a professional songwriter your goal is to write pension songs – songs that endure and keep going. I’m fortunate to be a product of that era. As for the TikTok songs, the audiences don’t have an attention span. They want the buzz right away, which flies in the face of all enduring songs. I’m grateful I’m not competing with it because I can’t see those songs being around in another 50 weeks, let alone 50 years.
You’re still touring after nearly 60 years working in the music industry. Do you have any plans to slow down or retire?
No, I haven’t. There are a couple of things of which I have no control over. One is my health. Thanks be to God I have good health and no issues which would stop me from touring. I’m in good shape, I look after myself. If I suddenly developed some debilitating disease – touch wood I don’t – that stops me from touring, that would be that. Or, if people stop buying tickets or turning up, I think I’ll get the memo. As long as I’ve got the energy, passion and health, and as long as people keep turning up, I’ll keep going.
You’ve worked with some big names in music, do you have any “pinch me” moments from over the years?
I remember way, way back in my early days I was working with a new band in Belfast called Them. The lead singer was an unknown young man called Van Morrisson. I was assigned to work with the band with an American producer called Bert Berns. I was like a sponge, soaking up everything that he did and didn’t miss a trick. I remember the first time I heard Luke Kelly sing The Town I Loved So Well to a packed Royal Albert Hall. I was 25 when I went on stage after Sandie Shaw had been announced as winner of Eurovision in 1967. I was only a kid! Having stood with my nose pressed against the window pane for such a long time, to be allowed into the toy shop, I knew I was now in the game. Those are the moments that stay with you and I’m blessed to have so many to look back on.
You’ve had an incredible career with so many highlights but there must have been some setbacks and disappointments along the way?
Songwriters are very good at trumpeting our successes, but we’re equally good at drawing a veil over our failures. Anyone who has been in the game as long as I have has had more than their fair share of screw-ups. There have been plenty of them. Going way back to the ‘70s, I spent most of one year writing a stage musical which never saw the light of day. You learn from those mistakes and setbacks because they are what give you the backbone to keep going. When I went to London first in the ‘60s I was straight out of college. It was a big ask trying to get a foothold in pop music, trying to survive and keep the bank manager off your back. If you can navigate your way through a couple of years of doors being slammed in your face and being turned down, then you can navigate your way through other refusals. If you keep picking yourself up and trying again, it teaches you a good few lessons. Number one being that if you don’t have faith or belief in yourself, you can’t expect anybody else to have it. You develop that steely resilience and keep going in the belief that you’ll finally get your shot.
Did your children or grandchildren ever think your job was cool? Are they fazed by what you do?
No! The nearest I came to being cool was when Jade Thirlwall sampled Puppet on a String. Cool has never been a word used to describe me. I don’t think I’m an old fashioned geezer and I’m cool enough in my attitudes and priorities – you have to be, to survive in this industry. I don’t see myself in a dressing gown and slippers reading a newspaper all day long.
Do you have any regrets in life?
I’ve made my fair share of mistakes. Nobody has the divine right to get everything correct. I think for all of the misjudgements and missteps, you have to be philosophical and view them as the different ingredients that make you the person who you are today. You can’t look back and have regrets. I’m 82, still in good health and about to embark on a nationwide tour. I’ve a lot to be thankful for. Whatever occasions where the planets weren’t aligned properly, I dropped the ball, or the heavens fell on me personally or professionally, they were all part and parcel of making me the man I am today.
Have you any other goals left to accomplish in your career?
I’ve long given up on the pursuit of happiness. Happiness is a transient thing, it’s not a state of mind that is enduring. Nobody is happy 24 hours a day, but the trick is when there are moments where everything is going well, slow down, breathe deep and saviour it. That’s the important thing. If you can achieve some level of satisfaction and fulfilment of your goals in your professional life, and contentment in your personal life, I think you’ve got it cracked. That’s as near a state of happiness as you’re ever going to get.
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