"The ending to this [season] is not like anything we've seen in the previous two seasons."
After the massive success of last year's The Traitors (streaming now on Peacock), host Alan Cumming knew this season had to be bigger. "There was a pressure to not just repeat ourselves, it actually upped the ante." And they did just that, with a more explosive cast and even wilder twists. "It is bigger. I'm sort of a cult leader. I've gone from just a dandy, lord of the manor in his castle, to official cult leader. I'm fine with it." Cumming hosts a castle full of reality TV stars who all play a game of murder in the hope of winning upwards of $250,000. This season's stars are from series including Survivor and Real Housewives, but Cumming says that their TV background has little to do with their success on The Traitors. "Everybody has this sort of myth that you have to be in one of those gamer shows to do well at this game, and it's not true. Sometimes it's actually good to have better social skills." Last year, Cumming's Emmy win ended RuPaul's historic eight-year winning streak for RuPaul's Drag Race. "I saw Ru, and I went up to him, and I just went, 'I am so sorry.' And he just went, 'Con-drag-ulations.' And I was like, 'He said it!'" [laughs]
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Editor's Note: This conversation has been edited and condensed for publication.
How do you feel about how big the show has become?
Well, what can you do? It's great. I feel it's sort of one of these really affirming things in life, actually. I did this random thing that just sounded fun. I went with my gut, and I didn't really understand what it was all about. I sort of took a chance, I suppose, and it has become not just a huge success, but that people really are so fond of it and really like it, and it's kind of become a sort of a zeitgeisty watercooler sort of thing. And also, more importantly, I really like it. I think it's great. I love how much care people take over it, the making of it, and I love doing it. I think we've kind of found a way to do a show like this in a new way. So it's been just great on every level. And it's a sort of lesson to me about continuing to say yes to things that you don't necessarily understand, [to] go outside your comfort zone.
This season feels even different from the last two seasons. What stands out to you about this one?
I think partly because the second season was so successful, there was a pressure to not just repeat ourselves, it actually upped the ante. When you do a show like this, the first season nobody knows what's going to happen. It's virgin territory. And then, of course, people watch it. So it's a question of pulling the rug from under them and keeping it fresh and having these twists and surprises. Even with my costumes and everything, we upped the ante on that. I just think it was a combination of all these things. And the production value is so great. It looks so amazing. It's shot so well. And I think that it really hit its stride in a way, in this season. And it is bigger. I'm sort of a cult leader. I have my followers. I didn't have followers in the other seasons. So now I've gone from just like a dandy, lord of the manor in his castle, to official cult leader. I'm fine with it. So yes, everything has been upped a bit. And the contestants bring their energy and their backstories, and so that makes it a whole new thing as well. I love the fact of how each season is so different to the one before, even though, structurally, it has a similarity. The ending to this one is not like anything we've seen in the previous two seasons. There's bits in it that are so intense and brutal. I've said this before, but I actually thought I was going to have to break up a fight at round table one time. It was really terrifying. I don't break up many fights.
How do you stay in the dandy lord of the manor character and break up a very real fight?
Well, it's sort of about the language that he uses. It's very flooded and kind of arcane. Instead of saying, "Hey everybody, quiet down," like I would say, he would say "Players, there must only be one voice we hear at the round table," something like that. So it's about this kind of language and authority that he has, I think that is the secret to it. It's amazing, when you are playing a character, it's sort of like doing drag. When you're doing drag, you have an alter ego, and so I'm kind of doing Traitors drag, and I have this character, and obviously it is quite draggy with all my swishing cloaks and everything. But also, it gives me the freedom to be this other person, to be much more heightened and aggressive. And I obviously play lots of big characters. In real life, I'm not shy, but I definitely don't walk in and go, "Hello everybody. I'm here!"
Every season it seems like the Housewives are always the one people focus on. Does that stand out to you? Why do you think that is?
I guess because they have a kind of collective personality, already established before you come into it. When you see a Housewife, you know exactly what that means. They're probably going to be ladies of a certain age, have quite a glamorous look, there may have been some surgery or some augmentation to their faces along the way, and also they understand how to make some drama out of lunch. But also, I really think they have a persecution complex, because they are always [saying], "They're always coming after the Housewives. It's a thing against the Housewives." Maybe sometimes, there's so many of [them] that maybe that's what it feels like, or they just maybe feel a little persecuted, just in general. But I love the way they gather as a pack and have this loyalty, sort of like the mafia, unspoken Housewives loyalty. It makes me laugh. And then, of course, it's actually really good to have a group like that within this game, because their blind loyalty and unflinching devotion to each other is, of course, great, because if one of them is a traitor, then it's more devastating, they've broken the mafia bond. They are hilarious, and I love it when they do well, because everybody has this sort of myth that you have to be in one of those gamer shows to do well at this game and it's not true. Sometimes it's actually good to have better social skills. And they also understand the drama of bringing a glass of wine around.
How do decide who's going to be a traitor?
At the start of the show they have some ideas about who they think would be good traitors. But the real thing that clinches it [is] when I do those interviews, the sort of fireside chats with the big pile of gold in front of them, and Lala, my dog in a little basket beside me. That's when we really make up our minds, because I ask them certain questions. It goes on for a long, long time. I've got 21 people, but you understand some of them are too thirsty, some of them want it too much, and then others are a bit tentative, and so you work out who would be good and also what would be a good combo. It's much more about the combo of people, because most people want to be a traitor, but it's about what is the combo of these personalities in the turret each night, because the denouement of each episode is what is happening there. So it's great to have some drama amongst them, as well as them being ruthless and brutal. Because just the very fact of being a traitor, you have to assume a role of being ruthless and brutal. This year was tremendous. There's so much drama, so much drama.
Last season you won the Emmy for hosting Traitors, breaking RuPaul's historic Emmy-winning run. Would there ever be a chance of a Traitors/Drag Race crossover?
Maybe as a cross-fertilization? [laughs] I actually think [it] would be really good to have an entire Traitors of just drag queens. Wouldn't that be good? Traitors Drag Race. Actual mashup. Obviously, it's great to win Emmys. So nice, lovely. I won the Emmy for hosting the first weekend of the Emmys, and I wasn't able to go to that ceremony because I was shooting a film in Scotland, and then they let me off to go to the second one, when we won for the show, so I'd already won. (It's quite fun going to the Emmys already having won an Emmy.) And I was being wheeled around to do press and everything. I saw Ru, and I went up to him, and I just went, "I am so sorry." And he just went, "Con-drag-ulations." And I was like, "He said it!" But it was bittersweet, obviously, because I feel what he and what Drag Race has done in our culture has been so important. There's this backlash against drag queens and against trans people. Because of the great work that show has done about showing people what it's like to be a person like that, how drag is not necessarily a scary thing, it's not the other, it can be in your community. They're sort of like commedia dell'arte characters, and there's a function for them in our society, and so to topple that obviously, as a queer person especially, it was bittersweet. But actually, I think in a funny way, Traitors has a very queer sensibility. I've made sure that we have a high quota of queer people as contestants now, especially in this season. And it's got the heightened nature of it, the theatricality of it and even the looks I'm serving; it's kind of [like] we're carrying on the tradition of Drag Race.
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