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There’s a scene in Questlove and co-director Oz Rodriguez’s “Ladies and Gentlemen… 50 Years of SNL Music” (which airs January 27 on NBC) that has, as far as we know, the only cultural intersection of Eddie Murphy and John Belushi appearing on screen together. Ever. It’s 1981 and former cast member John Belushi pulled some strings to get the punk rock band Fear booked as musical guests on Halloween alongside host Donald Pleasance. (Yes, Dr. Loomis from “Halloween” hosted “SNL” on Halloween.) Much has been made about Fear’s controversial performance over the years. And, in reality, the massive wave of destruction to hit 30 Rock that night wasn’t much more than a few kids slam dancing on the stage. Two of those “kids” being Belushi — who is in full slam dancing mode and is hard to spot, but we know he’s there – and another being Murphy, who climbs up on the back of the stage mostly to just see what all the fuss is about. How do we know this? Because Eddie Murphy is interviewed for the documentary and tells us this happened. And the fact Murphy gives a new interview for an “SNL” documentary in the first place tells us this one is something special.
Making a documentary about the last 50 years of “SNL” musical guests is such a herculean task one might as well make a documentary about the last half century of music itself. What’s deft about the way it’s formatted is it’s not linear, so if there’s an era of “SNL” that’s not particularly for you, well, you’re in luck, because it will soon move on to something else entirely. (The aforementioned Fear incident is covered near the end of the over two-hour long film.) This is foreshadowed by a rip-roaring introduction that has the sounds of musical acts spanning generations bleeding into one another in a segment that Questlove says took almost a full year to complete. (To give you a visual, an example is Queen’s Freddie Mercury belting out “Under Pressure” as it then seamlessly transitions to Vanilla Ice dancing across the stage to “Ice Ice Baby.”)
It’s a celebration, yes, but, oh boy, “Ladies and Gentlemen… 50 Years of SNL Music” doesn’t shy away from the more controversial moments of the show’s musical history. There’s the story of Elvis Costello changing the song at the last second to “Radio Radio,” which became a huge controversy at the time but, c’mon, it’s a pretty cool moment. But then there’s Ashlee Simpson (who declined to participate) dancing off the stage after the wrong song was played for her to lip synch with — which was decidedly not cool. But, the film unearthed recordings from the producers that night who are, to but it bluntly, freaking out.
Ahead, Questlove takes us through the process of putting this behemoth of a documentary together. How it came about in the first place and, once it did, where does one even start. Questlove is a huge “SNL” fan and seems downright giddy talking about these stories — as he puts it, “warts and all.” But, as it turns out, almost exactly as we hopped on Zoom with each other, both of our phones started blowing up with messages and notifications that director David Lynch had died. As it turns out, Questlove and David Lynch would hang out.
My phone is blowing up. Did you see this news?
David Lynch, yeah.
This is terrible.
Yeah, Lynch was … when I started my culinary endeavors, Lynch was one of the first people — he’s actually in my “Something to Food About” book. We sat in the infamous “SNL” Belushi Bungalow and had dinner with each other and traded off stories. We had an Omakase dinner based on all the meals mentioned in his movies and whatnot. Yeah, I’m going to miss that guy.
He’s the first guy that kind of seed planted where I am now, as far as metaphysically speaking. It’s the first time someone explained to me why mediation is important before you create. Why you sit silent before you create something. Him telling me that boredom is your best friend. So, yeah man, he’s an amazing person. I loved doing his film series and all that stuff. I would go and DJ his afterparties and whatnot. Yeah, man, he’s such a great guy. I’ll miss that guy. He’s a totally regular cat. Totally regular guy. He’s great.
You won an Oscar for “Summer of Soul,” which was about one music festival. With this, you’ve got 50 years. Where do you even start?
So, Lorne presents me with this challenge early in the “Summer of Soul” campaign. When we won Sundance, I think that was the greenlight to everyone that I might know what I’m doing. Once we started winning a lot of festival circuit awards — is this Oscar-worthy, is this not Oscar-worthy? — he presents this to me. My love of “SNL,” my obsession with “SNL,” is almost like an osmosis effect. My all-time favorite show is “Soul Train.” Across the United States, “Soul Train” is mostly a 12 in the afternoon experience for households…
Yeah I remember in St. Louis in the ‘80s it came on after “American Bandstand.”
Right. However, in Philadelphia “Soul Train” was a 1 a.m. experience. This is when I was five, six, seven years old. The deal was, “If you’re in bed at 8:30, we will wake you up at 12:30,” which was right when “Weekend Update” goes off and Jim Henson’s Muppets start. Then the two songs on “SNL.” Then it’s 1 a.m. and I get to watch “Soul Train.” And that’s pretty much my life from 1975 until 1981, when “Soul Train” started coming on at normal ass hours. But, I still religiously watched “SNL” because that was one of the rare places where you could see Bill Withers sing live. You could see Gil Scott-Heron sing live. You could see The Stylistics. And those first 10 years, it was only the cool groups. Which is why I like Funky 4+1…
I was going to bring that part up, who appear with Blondie on the show in 1981.
They have the same space as Sun Ra or Miles Davis. You had to have a cool cache to get on “Saturday Night Live.” Hal Wilner, to me one of the only regrets I have is that Hal passed away before this was finished. And one of the first elder statespeople who embraced me from the mythical 8H floor of SNL was Hal Wilner. Well, besides Higgins. It took me like four years to earn that Steve Higgins’s DJ gig is being Jimmy’s sidekick on “The Tonight Show.” I don’t think people realize…
That he’s a producer of “Saturday Night Live.”
He runs “Saturday Night Live.” But Hal Wilner took an immediate liking to me. He gave me these obscure records and had these crazy stories about these events. I just took it all in. And there was always the spirit of Hal Wilner that was there to be the checks and balance of who were the cool people.
I think we have some similar reference points with “SNL” and in the past you’d tweet at me about that week’s show when I was doing weekly reviews…
Are you still doing those lists?
I do still dabble with an “SNL” Podcast. But you know what happened? I’ve been to the show nine times now for some reason or another. And I got to the point where, watching what they all do in person, it’s such a miracle this show happens so I stopped writing about a particular sketch not being funny.
[Laughs] You know what they did? So, in the music world, whoever pans our album? Whatever powerful critic pans our album? The first thing I would do, I’d have my publicist hire that person to write our bio for the next album.
Oh, that’s smart.
Because then there’s a conflict of interest. You can’t review it if you’re part of the system. They sucked you into the system! I always wondered what happened to you. And I was like, “I wonder what Mike’s take on this would be?” Because, for me, using your guides, that really helped me a lot to understand the magic and the ecosystem of “SNL,” especially when I’m there in real time witnessing it. And, often, I’d ask myself, I wonder if I’d like this or am I the person who has to be influenced by another person’s thumbs up or thumbs down to how something is presented.
Also when I stopped my dad had just died and my heart just wasn’t in criticizing this show I love. But I still love writing about it. Spending the week with the set designers might be my favorite thing I’ve ever done.
Yeah, I’m the director’s commentary guy. I’m the audio description on Netflix and streaming service guy. I want to know how the sausage is made.
Yeah, exactly.
And to watch them do that choreography where they don’t bump into each other?
It’s truly remarkable.
And for me, even though I felt initially disappointed that Ashlee Simpson declined to give her side of the story of what happened…
Yeah, I was curious if she said no.
I literally went to everyone worth their grain of salt and some were yes and some were no. But Oz Rodriguez knew they recorded the producers’ mics also.
Yeah, that was fascinating.
To hear them, I crack up at it because it’s almost the sound of two kids who stole their parents’ car on a Saturday night. They’re in trouble. “What are we going to do?!” “I don’t know!” I think we all have our ideas how we think “SNL” gets made, so to hear that level of panic?
They are debating if they should go get her or not.
Or, you could just stop the song and start all over again!
Then they ask if they should go to bumper and up comes the picture of poor Jude Law.
It’s amazing to get all those stories. I wanted to get all the warts and all. I couldn’t get to Lana Del Rey quick enough to include her in it. I also feel as though her initial reception was a little harsh and it took awhile for people to understand her level of where she fits in the ecosystem. I feel as though I’m satisfied, because what it is you get to see in this documentary, it’s not a clip show. It’s the story of people taking risks. And each story, the premise is, I’m going to do something that might be risky to my career. Or I’m going to say no first. Or, why would we do such a silly thing? Or is this wrong to do? Everything starts in, “no.” And then it winds up in, “Let’s show up and see what happens.” Then history is made.
I was about an hour and 45 minutes into this, and I was thinking, “Is Questlove not going to get into the Fear incident?” Yeah I was wrong, you certainly did.
I felt so bad dismantling…
The legend. Everything I read it sounds like they burned 30 Rock down to the ground.
I produced an Elvis Costello record back in 2013. During that process, I was like, “Wow, man, I really thought you were going to be this super intense, megalomaniac, hard to work with hard ass.” And he was like, “The benefits of the reputation of the urban legend of ‘SNL’ is it drives your legend up. Controversy sells. And when people find out you’re an easy-going guy, then it’s almost disappointment.” What’s weird is, the Fear thing, I read those books, and I asked about the Fear thing and Wilner would just laugh, “Man, you’re going to learn soon enough on your own show that the myth of something, or the idea of something, is also going to supersede what actually happened. And he broke it down for me it’s like, oh, that’s all that happened?
In the footage, yeah it’s just some kids dancing and bumping into each other.
However, what’s weird is, I was done interviewing Eddie Murphy and realized one of my interview cards had fallen on the floor. I picked it up and I was going to dismiss it. I said, “Oh, I have one more … well, nah, you wouldn’t know anything about the Fear incident.” And he’s like, “The rock group?!?!”
You show him on stage with them.
I was like, “Wait, you have a story about them?” He said, “Hell yeah I have a story.” When he said, “I jumped on stage with them,” we are all like, what? Going back and looking at the footage, I was like, oh my god, there he is right there. And the thing is, him and John Belushi, it’s so weird that Fear moment…
That’s their only intersection right? Obviously Eddie worked with Aykroyd in Trading Places, but never Belushi.
The one time you get Eddie Murphy and John Belushi in the same frame — and we don’t know which one John Belushi is — is that Fear moment. So, yeah man, I couldn’t wait to get to the bottom of that story. And to see that same cast of characters…
Lee Ving.
[Laughs] Oh, dude. You know what was weird?
He’s in “Streets of Fire” and “Flashdance.”
I went to go see “Clue” at the Alamo in my neighborhood. I didn’t realize Lee Ving is in “Clue.” He’s one of the characters in “Clue”! But yeah, for me, really getting under the hood of what happens on that show is one of my favorite things ever. Given absolute access to notes and the sound files and to see rehearsals and soundchecks and whatnot.
Speaking of Eddie Murphy. It seems like things have thawed with him and “SNL” over the past few years. But was getting him to participate in an “SNL” doc tricky?
The two advantages you have with me at the helm? Most “no”s come from managers and lawyers. I assure you, every artist is like a golden retriever. “I want to do it! I want to do it!” It’s always a manager or the publicist. Someone has to be the paid bad guy in this situation. So, one of the advantages of having me at the helm is that I have a direct through line to the artists. So, when it comes to getting Taylor Swift to clear a song, or getting Murph to talk, or getting Chris Stein or Debbie Harry to speak on it? Sixty percent of giving the nudge of someone to do it for me was just having their phone number and having a relationship with them.
In terms of that impossibly hard to clear intro? I’m such a fan of The Avalanches’ “Since I Left You” album. The Avalanches is a group from Australia that did an entire album the same way we crafted the cold opening, the montage of songs?
Right, in which one example is Queen performing “Under Pressure” and it segues straight into Vanilla Ice performing “Ice Ice Baby.” It’s really amazing.
Yeah, that took 11 months to do. And even then there were 19 holdout songs that could have totally knocked the Jenga down. “Man, if we don’t have this, then we can’t get to that song then this song then that song.” Quincy Jones once told me that my most important instrument is going to be my telephone and my relationships and my reach. Doing this project, that is so apropos. That is the lesson that I learned: wow, relationships are everything. That turned a lot of nos into yeses.
“Ladies and Gentlemen… 50 Years of SNL Music” airs January 27 on NBC.
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